Ryan Wilson: The Hockey Community needs to listen, understand, and actively help The Hockey Community needs to listen, understand, and actively help

Towes: I’m not condoning or approving the looting, but are we really going to sit here and say that peaceful protesting is the only answer?

You're don't condone but you understand it, Jonathan? Betcha if they started looting your mansion you would think differently.

Good piece Ryan. Thank you.

@Steven: It’s pretty easy to understand why things you don’t approve of are happening. I think Communism is terrible and immoral, but I understand why a bunch of Cuban peasants turned to Castro in the 1950s. Pretty self explanatory why a bunch of people who keep getting victimized by police brutality would resort to violent rioting when people keep finding ways to blast completely harmless protests like kneeling for the anthem or wearing “I can’t breath” shirts instead of listening to what people are actually trying to say. That’s really kind of the whole point. If we would just listen and try to take steps forward when people are just talking, we wouldn’t be here right now in a place where the talking is largely over and bricks are getting thrown through windows and the federal police are tear gassing groups of peaceful protestors in our nation’s capital.

And for the record, I don’t even think the violent riots have much to do with George Floyd. They’re getting whiter by the day and seem to be mostly extremist agitators, so this is a real weird thing to zero in on to question the validity of race issues in this country.

I hope Sid's and the Pens comments were good enough for Ryan. Probably not though. People female dog that they didn't say it soon enough and then when they do it doesn't mean anything and they need to do more.

It won’t be enough, as the woke brigade are now saying every player, team, etc. should have said something when the akim aliu story came about. If they say something on that now, they’ll ask well what about what happened when Wayne Simmons got a banana thrown at him.

Change needs to happen, and it starts with firing people who do racist, abusive, stuff like what bill peters did and what the cop did. People need to act when they are notified of this instead of letting it go on.

Hate to say it but its the hot topic for this month. After this month is over, people will go back to living their normal lives. Thats all lives. All colors. Everyone wants to see a change but...nothing will change. Peoples hearts need to change and they need to understand the value of life. Its all sad.

Hate to say it but its the hot topic for this month. After this month is over, people will go back to living their normal lives. Thats all lives. All colors. Everyone wants to see a change but...nothing will change. Peoples hearts need to change and they need to understand the value of life. Its all sad.
- nateca44

At least this rioting as proven one thing: Covid-19 is a thing of the past.

I haven't been able to go to church or a restaurant or get my hair cut in almost 3 months because I had to "social distance" or risk being arrested.

Who knew the cure to this deadly disease was rioting, looting and arson?

Hate to say it but its the hot topic for this month. After this month is over, people will go back to living their normal lives. Thats all lives. All colors. Everyone wants to see a change but...nothing will change. Peoples hearts need to change and they need to understand the value of life. Its all sad.
- nateca44

Probably true. Ferguson and Charlottesville feel like ages ago. They didn’t amount to anything, this probably won’t either.

EDIT: Although I will say That SCOTUS was already going to be looking at qualified immunity even before all this, which would be pretty big. I expect Gorsuch will come out against which might give this enough legs.

Probably true. Ferguson and Charlottesville feel like ages ago. They didn’t amount to anything, this probably won’t either.

EDIT: Although I will say That SCOTUS was already going to be looking at qualified immunity even before all this, which would be pretty big. I expect Gorsuch will come out against which might give this enough legs.
- Victoro311

Nothing will change until black culture changes. Blame whitey all you want but in my life experience we are all awarded opportunities to succeed and making poor decisions leads to poor results whether that’s willfully living a life of crime or signing JJ.

Listen any reasonable person would say things can be better and will get better when everyone is more aware and caring of each other. But when you write an article with statements about the amount of police killings and how it shows a pattern of clear racism it should have all the facts . I read the stats that are used and it reminds me of the same way stats are used in hockey by guys like you trying to show you know better. Articles stating that blacks are under 15% of the population but are killed at a rate twice as high as whites. since 2015 aproxx 2400 whites have been killed by police, 1200 blacks. So the stats say that is disproportionate right. Well they of course
fail to mention that over 50% of homicides and violent crimes were committed by a certain ethnic group. Thats like complaining that player A gets 70% more penalties than player B but failing to mention player B only played in 10 games. Last year 9 unarmed afro-americans were killed by police. 19 unarmed whites were killed. If you listen to the media you would think it happened twice a day. I am not downplaying or defending any bad illegal action by anyone . Police do something wrong they should be punished but please understand that everyone has to be held accountable. Responsibility should not be ignored. Believe me we have made great strides . I lived and worked in the bronx for aproxx 60 years. In the late 60's race riots with groups swinging bats and chains at each other were common place. But through all of it americans of all races worked together and this country held its place at the top. It will continue to do so.

At least this rioting as proven one thing: Covid-19 is a thing of the past.

I haven't been able to go to church or a restaurant or get my hair cut in almost 3 months because I had to "social distance" or risk being arrested.

Who knew the cure to this deadly disease was rioting, looting and arson?
- stevens87

You are a gd embarrassment

You are a gd embarrassment
- James_Tanner

Then explain to me why I haven't been able to do a lot of things for three months because I had to social distance BUT if I wanted to go riot, loot and commit arson, that same thing doesn't apply?

So these people may have just exacerbated the virus in many states but WHO CARES, right?

BTW - continue to write on behalf of Arizona. Your knowledge of the game matches their play.

Nothing will change until black culture changes. Blame whitey all you want but in my life experience we are all awarded opportunities to succeed and making poor decisions leads to poor results whether that’s willfully living a life of crime or signing JJ.
- Feds91Stammer

If you don’t think there are policies in place and superfluous government regulations that block economic mobility in this country then I don’t know what to tell you. There’s tons of data and studies out there from Pew, Forbes, and other reputable outlets that conclude that you’re a lot more likely to end your life at the rung of the socioeconomic ladder that you started on than you are of improving your lot. The fact of the matter is that the black community has started at the lowest possible rung of the ladder due to the the fact that they came to this country as slaves (can’t get much lower than that) and the century of overtly and specifically racist policies that followed emancipation up until the Civil Rights movement. Granting equality of citizenship doesn’t all of a sudden take away the massive anchor on people’s ability to climb that stems from starting out dirt poor. It’s no surprise to know that a huge percentage of of the white people that are stuck in the pits of poverty and disadvantage have Celtic blood and came here through indentured servitude or to escape the potato famine with literally nothing.

I’m not saying that there aren’t cultural issues with urban black communities that hamper the ability to succeed even further, but it can definitely be argued that the normalization and predisposition to crime in these communities are a symptom of the limited ability to gather wealth by legal means. Yes, there are honest jobs to be had out there, but if all the jobs available to uneducated poor people pay absolute dog poop, someone can live their life the right way by working three minimum wage jobs to make ends meet but there will be no progress made in setting up the next generation for success. This problem is made worse by the fact that illegal activity that are treated as growing pains for the middle class teens and young adults are often treated as jailable offenses for poor people, especially minorities. If you’re poor and have priors, you’re basically done.

I don’t think white guilt is an appropriate reaction. I don’t think we should force people to apologize for something they personally were not responsible for or pay restitutions, and I do think that no matter what is done, poverty is an inherent disadvantage that can’t be fully done away with and no matter what poor people will always have to work harder to get somewhere in life, as unfortunate as that may be. But I do think there are obvious policies that can either be revoked or put in place that can eliminate some of these barriers to economic mobility that include reforming the criminal justice system and the DOJ (including the police force) in general, ending the war on drugs, severely scaling back occupational licensing, and a better approach to education that focuses on the trades and scales back tuition by limiting the amount of loan dollars the federal government signs off on. Further I think that acknowledging the disadvantage that the black community starts off with when trying to improve their lot in life and the systematic racism they’ve dealt with throughout this country’s history is the absolute least we can all do as a starting point, and we’re not even doing that.

If you don’t think there are policies in place and superfluous government regulations that block economic mobility in this country then I don’t know what to tell you. There’s tons of data and studies out there from Pew, Forbes, and other reputable outlets that conclude that you’re a lot more likely to end your life at the rung of the socioeconomic ladder that you started on than you are of improving your lot. The fact of the matter is that the black community has started at the lowest possible rung of the ladder due to the the fact that they came to this country as slaves (can’t get much lower than that) and the century of overtly and specifically racist policies that followed emancipation up until the Civil Rights movement. Granting equality of citizenship doesn’t all of a sudden take away the massive anchor on people’s ability to climb that stems from starting out dirt poor. It’s no surprise to know that a huge percentage of of the white people that are stuck in the pits of poverty and disadvantage have Celtic blood and came here through indentured servitude or to escape the potato famine with literally nothing.

I’m not saying that there aren’t cultural issues with urban black communities that hamper the ability to succeed even further, but it can definitely be argued that the normalization and predisposition to crime in these communities are a symptom of the limited ability to gather wealth by legal means. Yes, there are honest jobs to be had out there, but if all the jobs available to uneducated poor people pay absolute dog poop, someone can live their life the right way by working three minimum wage jobs to make ends meet but there will be no progress made in setting up the next generation for success. This problem is made worse by the fact that illegal activity that are treated as growing pains for the middle class teens and young adults are often treated as jailable offenses for poor people, especially minorities. If you’re poor and have priors, you’re basically done.

I don’t think white guilt is an appropriate reaction. I don’t think we should force people to apologize for something they personally were not responsible for or pay restitutions, and I do think that no matter what is done, poverty is an inherent disadvantage that can’t be fully done away with and no matter what poor people will always have to work harder to get somewhere in life, as unfortunate as that may be. But I do think there are obvious policies that can either be revoked or put in place that can eliminate some of these barriers to economic mobility that include reforming the criminal justice system and the DOJ (including the police force) in general, ending the war on drugs, severely scaling back occupational licensing, and a better approach to education that focuses on the trades and scales back tuition by limiting the amount of loan dollars the federal government signs off on. Further I think that acknowledging the disadvantage that the black community starts off with when trying to improve their lot in life and the systematic racism they’ve dealt with throughout this country’s history is the absolute least we can all do as a starting point, and we’re not even doing that.
- Victoro311

Look at your 2nd paragraph. Poor decisions lead to poor results. It’s about self responsibility. It’s your choice to be uneducated. It’s your choice to have priors. It’s your choice to break the law.

I went to a high school that is 19% white. I was a minority at school. My school was poor. I made the choice to be educated and strive for success and today I can reap the rewards of that choice.

Look at your 2nd paragraph. Poor decisions lead to poor results. It’s about self responsibility. It’s your choice to be uneducated. It’s your choice to have priors. It’s your choice to break the law.

I went to a high school that is 19% white. I was a minority at school. My school was poor. I made the choice to be educated and strive for success and today I can reap the rewards of that choice.
- Feds91Stammer

I don’t know if you’re being willfully disingenuous here.

It is not your choice to be uneducated if you have to drop out of high school in order to help support your Impoverished family or if you can’t even afford a couple thousand a year for an associates degree from community college because your parents have no credit and loans aren’t available to you.

It is your choice to participate in criminal activity, but the same vandalism-related prank committed by a kid who’s family has means that gets him a stern talking to by the town constable can land a kid in the inner city in jail. I shouldn’t have to mention the drug related stuff, since research has born out beyond a shadow of a doubt that race and means strongly effect how drug-related crimes are punished. If you’re saying black people should know better and avoid these kinds of activities because they will be punished more severely by the law, then that’s kind of proving my point, is it not?

To your last point, I’m happy for you that you were able to improve yourself. It does happen and I’m not claiming it doesn’t. My whole point is that there are needless handicaps and anchors that can be done away with with policy fixes that can make that process much easier and closer to the meritocracy we all want than it currently is.

By the way, if you’re whole anecdote is that you went to a poor school that was predominantly black, that again is to my point given how school system funding is distributed according to relative wealth of districts.

I don’t know if you’re being willfully disingenuous here.

It is not your choice to be uneducated if you have to drop out of high school in order to help support your Impoverished family or if you can’t even afford a couple thousand a year for an associates degree from community college because your parents have no credit and loans aren’t available to you.

It is your choice to participate in criminal activity, but the same vandalism-related prank committed by a kid who’s family has means that gets him a stern talking to by the town constable can land a kid in the inner city in jail. I shouldn’t have to mention the drug related stuff, since research has born out beyond a shadow of a doubt that race and means strongly effect how drug-related crimes are punished. If you’re saying black people should know better and avoid these kinds of activities because they will be punished more severely by the law, then that’s kind of proving my point, is it not?

To your last point, I’m happy for you that you were able to improve yourself. It does happen and I’m not claiming it doesn’t. My whole point is that there are needless handicaps and anchors that can be done away with with policy fixes that can make that process much easier and closer to the meritocracy we all want than it currently is.

By the way, if you’re whole anecdote is that you went to a poor school that was predominantly black, that again is to my point given how school system funding is distributed according to relative wealth of districts.
- Victoro311

It is 100% your choice to be uneducated unless you have a learning disability. Let’s not pretend things like section 8, food stamps, disability, and Medicaid don’t exist. My anecdote proves the cultural problem in different communities. There’s no street cred to being educated. You’re being willfully disingenuous to the fact of self responsibility.

It is 100% your choice to be uneducated unless you have a learning disability. Let’s not pretend things like section 8, food stamps, disability, and Medicaid don’t exist. My anecdote proves the cultural problem in different communities. There’s no street cred to being educated. You’re being willfully disingenuous to the fact of self responsibility.
- Feds91Stammer

Your anecdote proves an isolated success story and then you point to a bunch of dubiously effective government programs that target basic necessities rather than inhibitors to economic mobility as proof that the ability to climb the socioeconomic ladder is 100% determined by drive. Your ability to afford groceries and housing does not affect your ability to improve your net worth. It affects your ability to not die. If your time and assets are all going towards meeting basic requirements to stay alive, there is nothing left over to go towards improvement.

For a stats guy, you're relying a whole lot on the eye test today.

Your anecdote proves an isolated success story and then you point to a bunch of dubiously effective government programs that target basic necessities rather than inhibitors to economic mobility as proof that the ability to climb the socioeconomic ladder is 100% determined by drive. Your ability to afford groceries and housing does not affect your ability to improve your net worth. It affects your ability to not die. If your time and assets are all going towards meeting basic requirements to stay alive, there is nothing left over to go towards improvement.

For a stats guy, you're relying a whole lot on the eye test today.
- Victoro311

Nah. I’m relying on self responsibility because there’s only one person that can make your life better. You. If you want to enable people to continue making poor decisions that’s your choice.

Look at your 2nd paragraph. Poor decisions lead to poor results. It’s about self responsibility. It’s your choice to be uneducated. It’s your choice to have priors. It’s your choice to break the law.

I went to a high school that is 19% white. I was a minority at school. My school was poor. I made the choice to be educated and strive for success and today I can reap the rewards of that choice.
- Feds91Stammer

This is just so ignorant its not even funny. Painting yourself as the minority is disgusting, and you ought to just take some constructive advice and educate yourself, because you sound like a jackass.

Nah. I’m relying on self responsibility because there’s only one person that can make your life better. You. If you want to enable people to continue making poor decisions that’s your choice.
- Feds91Stammer

All I want is to reduce executive overstep in the DOJ and reduce government interference in the market place that is inhibiting upward mobility and keeping poor people dependent on government handouts and economically stationary. But if it's controversial to say that existing wealth affects your ability to generate more wealth or that policing is different based on ethnicity, then ok. I guess we're at an impasse.

Towes: I’m not condoning or approving the looting, but are we really going to sit here and say that peaceful protesting is the only answer?

You're don't condone but you understand it, Jonathan? Betcha if they started looting your mansion you would think differently.
- stevens87

Do you know how and why the Civil Rights Act of 1964 got passed?

You do understand the peaceful protest that was the Greensboro Sit-In was just 60 years ago, right?

You do understand that the Stonewall Riot was only 51 years ago, right?

We are absolutely kidding ourselves if we think protests turning into riots isn't as American as apple pie. You were the dude in 1770 in Boston telling the other colonists to leave the poor soldier alone.

Do you know how and why the Civil Rights Act of 1964 got passed?

You do understand the peaceful protest that was the Greensboro Sit-In was just 60 years ago, right?

You do understand that the Stonewall Riot was only 51 years ago, right?

We are absolutely kidding ourselves if we think protests turning into riots isn't as American as apple pie. You were the dude in 1770 in Boston telling the other colonists to leave the poor soldier alone.
- Blackstrom2

So ends justify the means?

So ends justify the means?
- stevens87

In the case of systemic oppression against marginalized minority groups, yes.

I don't condone the burning of buildings, the looting of stores. But i understand why. But that's pretty much what Toews said, so I don't think either of us are changing either's opinion here.

In the case of systemic oppression against marginalized minority groups, yes.

I don't condone the burning of buildings, the looting of stores. But i understand why. But that's pretty much what Toews said, so I don't think either of us are changing either's opinion here.
- Blackstrom2

I don't condone the looting of people by banks and corporations. Nor do I condone police brutality, or a joke president tear gassing peaceful protesters.

I do condone all rioting if it leads to change.